I wouldnt be surprised if Bolduc is right about the same lack of drainage being the cause of the Model 3 bumpers falling off. The first of the three shields is a rounded, hollow aluminum bar that is designed to either deflect objects entirely or, in the case of a self-stabilizing, ultra high strength object, like a three ball steel tow hitch, absorb the impact and force it to pike upwards well forward of the battery pack. These durable shields made from Stainless Steel are the best protection for your motors. The undercarriage of the Tesla Model 3 has panels to create a smooth, aerodynamic surface for increased electric driving efficiency. All Teslas welcome!Many more tips, tricks and information to come on Tesla Gurus. Current slide {CURRENT_SLIDE} of {TOTAL_SLIDES}- Save on Splash Guards & Mud Flaps, Current slide {CURRENT_SLIDE} of {TOTAL_SLIDES}- You may also like. Do you value your experience at TMC? With a track record of zero deaths or serious, permanent injuries since our vehicles went into production six years ago, there is no safer car on the road than a Tesla. Something went wrong. These incidents, unfortunately, received more national headlines than the other 200,000 gasoline car fires that happened last year in North America alone. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. https://ts.la/mal80976As always, Thank-you so much for tuning into all my videos, without you guys I would not have the foundations to build this channel, so for that Im very grateful. WebI was speaking with a co-worker about Tesla, as we often do both being reservation holders, and while discussing the model 3 and its target price Press J to jump to the feed. Delivery times may vary, especially during peak periods. Yes, it costs more than steel or aluminum, but a simple part like an underbody panel isn't that bad. Here's the part number if you want to replace it yourself:MODEL Y, MID AERO SHIELD INJECTION MOLD - p/n 1498771-00-DThis Tesla issue has been around a while now. This is followed by a titanium plate, which has exceptional strength-to-weight properties and is more commonly seen in aerospace or military applications. Probably negligible in most cases. This does add about 7.5 lbs to the car but has a negligible effect to the range. Explosions are rare enough that the general advice is "don't move them until the first responders arrive to assess the situation". He wanted to design a trailer that would fit better in the EV world. That is easily the most disturbing structural fault I have seen to date. Those fires and the resulting media coverage, put NHTSA on high alert. Current slide {CURRENT_SLIDE} of {TOTAL_SLIDES}- Best Selling in Splash Guards & Mud Flaps. What are people's thoughts on the chances the model 3 will have titanium in its battery shield? It was replaced at no charge. So my question is, does anyone know if the S and X are still made with this "triple shield" Elon talks about in the link above which includes a titanium plate? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. 5.31K subscribers. I'm an armchair engineer, and I think its all fine. Out of interest which Service Centre did you visit? We contacted Tesla again last week about Bolducs findings and the issue arising in Quebec, where theres a lot of sand and dirt on the road due to the rough winter. 15K views 2 years ago #tesla #teslamodel3 #AeroCovers. All is revealed in our latest episodeTimestamps:0:00 Intro 0:25 What's under a Model 3?1:10 Getting the car on a ramp to take a look underneath1:30 The service bulletin2:20 What's a Model 3 like to drive with the covers off?3:00 What's behind the covers?3:30 Old and new covers compared3:50 Is it as weak as cardboard?4:30 What happens when it gets wet?5:00 Before you say anything, I can tear a telephone directory in half!5:15 Oi! It's easy to see they are critical for aerodynamics. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. For more on the Tesla Model S underbody shield package, refer to Elon's blog post below: In 2013, two extremely unusual Model S collisions resulted in underbody damage that led to car fires. Sure, thered be added weight, but it would offer a lot more protection. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for For Tesla Model 3 Front Aero Undertray Body Liner Splash Shield 1104312-00-B at the best online In some more extreme cases, he extracted over 35 lbs of dirt from a Model 3s underbody: Thats definitely one of the more extreme cases, but its not usual to find a significant amount of dirt and road sand in the panel. I assume it was part of the aero-shield. How many gas tanks have been gashed open by high speed road debris? Titanium is strong per-lb, but it is very expensive and inappropriate for the Model 3. 0 The odds of fire in a Model S, at roughly 1 in 8,000 vehicles, are five times lower than those of an average gasoline car and, when a fire does occur, the actual combustion potential is comparatively small. What do they look like? The Model 3 tends to have difficulty getting WiFi reception compared to other devices even if theyre in the same spot. Asbestos has been banned in the US since 1989. Net net, I paid $248.51 to Thanks for this post. Why do they fall off? Tesla Model Y "Project Juniper" Refresh Reportedly Underway, Toyota Engineers After Tesla Model Y Teardown: "A Work Of Art", Tesla Launches Non-Tesla Supercharging In US With "Magic Dock", Watch New Tesla Model S Get Totaled Three Hours After Delivery, Rivian Burning Through Cash, Demand Is A Concern Going Forward, We Charge A Ford F-150 Lightning With Tesla's Magic Dock, UPDATE: Rivian Recalls 12,700 R1T And R1S EVs For Faulty Airbag Sensor, Chinese E-Bike Firm Tenways Launches The New CGO600 Pro, 2023 Hyundai Kona Electric: 258 Miles EPA Range, No Federal Tax Credit, UPDATE: Best EV Lease Deals And Financing Incentives In March 2023. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. JavaScript is disabled. New Model 3 owner, based in Silicon Valley. And for all the Tesla superfans out there that dont like when we report things like that, Its all about making the product better. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. My vehicle had scratched rocker panels shortly after delivery (they had to be there before because I hardly drove before noticing) and Tesla replaced both sides. MCR AWD, 2.5 hdwr, Niko - MSM LR RWD, Black interior, PUP, 19", FSD, First Production, https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-rear-bumper-rain/, https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-ad-shield-and-aluminum-deflector-plates-model-s, Model 3: Reserving, Ordering, Production, Delivery. Free shipping for many products! Tesla Gurus. I'll watch it next time to see if the lift is too high relative to the height of the Model 3. It's neither rare not precious. Tesla Motors Club LLC (TMC) is an independent enthusiast organization and is not affiliated with Tesla Motors, Inc. or its subsidiaries. It may not display this or other websites correctly. ", Now, Tesla has responded again by fitting all Model S sedans with a titanium underbody shield and aluminum deflectors. Press J to jump to the feed. They might make local news, but who watches local news? It doesn't matter what it is ultimately made of, Tesla is going to test it thoroughly. Free 7-day returns and 30-day warranty. Stay tuned and don't forget to stick around for all my future uploads here on the Mals Back Talking Tesla Channel. Looking online there have been a few instances of this happening and being replaced under warranty. Titanium is strong per-lb, but it is very expensive and inappropriate for the Model 3. Visit https://blackboots.co.uk for expert tyre fitting and wheel alignment. Yes, new vehicles are still manufactured with this shield. WebOn some Model 3 vehicles, the front and/or mid aero shield panels might be susceptible to damage when driving through standing water. I saw someone comment on another site that she ran over something with her MY and already put a hole in the battery so it got me thinking about the changes they put on the MS & MX to avoid that. Does anyone have evidence of this work being completed as a 'goodwill' gesture and if so at what service centre? Sure thing! TESLA, TESLA MOTORS, TESLA ROADSTER, MODEL S, MODEL X, and the TESLA, T and TESLA and T in Crest designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of Tesla Motors, Inc. in the United States and other countries. The driver stepped out and walked away with no permanent injuries and a fire, again limited to the front section of the vehicle, started several minutes later. JavaScript is disabled. Learn more about Standard Connectivity and any limitations. What are they made from? Does anyone have evidence of this being completed under 'goodwill'? Tesla Model 3 WiFi Keeps Disconnecting. Something went wrong. Tesla CEO Musk says this package, which was This way you can show them that the impact was indeed not your fault. However, to improve things further, we provided an over-the-air software update a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model S at highway speeds, substantially reducing the odds of a severe underbody impact. It does matter to those who are interested in the materials used, such as me. Some Model 3 owners, myself included, ran into some issues in Canada where things like the door handles, charge ports, and frameless windows didnt perform well in extremely cold weather. Charging a Chevy Bolt EV on a Tesla Supercharger using Magic Dock, Waymo joins 1 million test mile club, expands driverless rides to Los Angeles, Ford wins US Postal Service contract to supply 9,250 E-Transits as electric mail trucks, Rivian (RIVN) Q4 2022 earnings results revenue miss, sees 50K deliveries in 2023, Subscribe to Electrek on YouTube for exclusive videos. 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Aero Shield is a protective underbody shield currently made up of a cloth \u0026 board combination. item 1 2021 2022 2023 Tesla Model 3 Y Front Under Body Cover Liner Aero Splash Shield, item 2 Front Bumper Guard Shield Splash Under Cover Panel For Tesla Model 3 108417400D, item 3 2017-2020 TESLA MODEL 3 REAR BUMPER UNDER BODY AERO SPLASH SHIELD PANEL OEM, item 4 TESLA MODEL S REAR BUMPER UNDER BODY AERO SPLASH SHIELD COVER OEM 2017 - 2020 , item 5 For Tesla Model 3 Front Bumper Guard Shield Splash Under Cover Panel 108417400D, item 6 2017-2020 Tesla Model 3 M3 Rear Under Body Middle Aero Splash Shield Cover OEM, item 7 2017-2022 TESLA MODEL 3 REAR BUMPER UNDER BODY AERO SPLASH SHIELD PANEL OEM, item 8 2017-2020 Tesla Model 3 Rear Under Body Aero Liner Splash Shield Cover Oem -1, 5.0 out of 5 stars based on 2 product ratings, 3.9 out of 5 stars based on 10 product ratings, 5.0 out of 5 stars based on 4 product ratings, 4.3 out of 5 stars based on 3 product ratings, 4.2 out of 5 stars based on 33 product ratings, 4.3 out of 5 stars based on 12 product ratings, 4.8 out of 5 stars based on 283 product ratings. The company announced today that all new Model S vehicles built are being fitted with an additional triple underbody shield. WebFind many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2017 - 2018 Tesla Model 3 Front Under Body Aero Splash Shield Panel Cover OEM at the best online prices at eBay! I also wouldn't be surprised if the current S and X models made have had the titanium element 'quietly' removed from the current battery shield to save costs, especially if it is an unnecessary safety measure as is described by Elon. Tesla Motors Club LLC (TMC) is an independent enthusiast organization and is not affiliated with Tesla Motors, Inc. or its subsidiaries. [mod note: this post was originally a reply in Mike's. Thanks to high speed cameras fixed underneath the cars during testing, we have a close-up view of what happens to the objects on impact. the chances the model 3 will have titanium in its battery shield? Tesla service will also retrofit the shields, free of charge, to existing cars upon request or as part of a normally scheduled service. After removing some panels, Bolduc believes he found where the dirt is coming from behind the wheel well: Its not unusual for dirt to get in the underbody from there in any car, but the panel generally has more significant drainage to rapidly get dirt and water out. If it is the same product, I'd say it is likely tested with time. In both cases, the occupants walked away unharmed, thanks to the cars safety features. %%EOF So my question is, does anyone know if the S and X are still made with this "triple shield" Elon talks about in the link above which includes a titanium plate? Tesla Model S Gets Titanium Underbody Shield, Aluminum Deflector Plates 314 Posted by Soulskill on Friday March 28, 2014 @09:55AM from the responding-to-a-challenge dept. $99.88. The underbody shields will help prevent a fire even in such a scenario. Subscribe to Electrek on YouTube for exclusive videos and subscribe to the podcast. Fortunately, it doesnt appear to have resulted in anything breaking so far, but you could argue that it adds some unwanted weight to the car. endstream endobj startxref I'm sure some are busier than others. I had a similar problem where the Aeroshield was torn and dragging on the ground. Don't know for sure. Tesla responded with an over-the-air update "a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model S at highway speeds, substantially reducing the odds of a severe underbody impact. The Y battery is flush. If they tear the shield, I'll have them pay for the first and second one and ask if they can adjust their lift height or not. Had one on my Infiniti and it was great. What are they doing there anyway?Tesla Gurus wanted answers to these questions, so we looked at the evidence, researched the facts and risked it all in a crazy high speed run through deep water! Much of titanium's increased cost is because it is somewhat difficult to work with. There are lots of steel alloys, not all rust thru readily. - Top Rated Plus - opens in a new window or tab, - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new window or tab, For Tesla Model 3 Front Aero Undertray Body Liner Splash Shield 1104312-00-B, - for PayPal Credit, opens in a new window or tab, about earning points with eBay Mastercard, Report this item - opens in new window or tab. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Over the years, Tesla has often been accused of designing cars in California for the Californian climate. Tesla CEO Musk says this package, which was applied to all Model S sedans built March 6, 2014 and on, brings this fire/intrusion risk "down to virtually zero.". Will be interesting to see how this plays out and how this material holds up long term. I'm not sure that's true. That panel is just for aerodynamics. hbbd```b``z "ddW`,.&?^> fu"`"RAd |Pi`7t R@u10RDg` 6:` hb```c``*b`e`ad@ A(@YDGan;::+::JI\HK $X$g_D7G5X6qZ+M^W} yRp10 iF ~` # Their mission is to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy. Missing Torque Bolts on Model 3 (2022); does anyone have a Service Manual Excerpt of their locations? On March 6, 2014, Tesla included a new titanium underbody shield and aluminum deflector plates on new cars to better protect the battery when running over Tesla Gurus! endstream endobj 23 0 obj <. Aero Shield is a protective underbody shield currently made up of a cloth & NOV2022: Just Took Delivery of My 2023 TESLA Model Y LR/AWD. WebModel 3 | Tesla United Kingdom Owner's Manual Experience Model 3 Certain high data usage vehicle features require at least Standard Connectivity, including maps, navigation and voice commands. When it comes to the winter driving experience, I disagree with those who say that Tesla is designing cars in California for the Californian climate. View cart for details. If there are no signs of damage such as scratches and tears to the surrounding area, my guess is that Tesla may cover it under a basic vehicle warranty. Model 3 Undercarriage damage and fluid leaking? The original and largest Tesla community on Reddit! WebFind many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2017 - 2018 Tesla Model 3 Front Under Body Aero Splash Shield Panel Cover OEM at the best online prices at eBay! Get interesting investment ideas by Fred Lambert, ChargePoint Home WiFi Enabled Electric Vehicle (EV) Charger, Stay up to date with the latest content by, Electric Vehicle Price Guide best prices for dealers in the US, back bumpers that we have seen breaking off two Model 3 vehicles after heavy rain, World first! Please keep us informed regarding any action taken by Tesla. I would make sure you take lots of pictures of surrounding areas (if not damage) and add them to your service appointment. WebEntdecke Ferrari 458 Speciale, 458 Speciale Aperta FRONT LH UNDERBODY SHIELD P/N 86245200 in groer Auswahl Vergleichen Angebote und Preise Online kaufen bei eBay Kostenlose Lieferung fr viele Artikel! Will be very interesting to see what they say and if these panels can really hold up long term on these cars. Did we get our feet wet? WebBuy a used White Tesla Model S like new for $42,950 and 80,079 miles. This is an amazing vehicle and still is very new and will make anyone very happy to own a Rivian! 2018. It does look like theres a design flaw in theunderbody panel that creates a lack of drainage. I would have thought a heavy duty thick plastic would have been better with some drain holes. Tesla Manchester say they could get the replacement part by next Thu 28 Jan. Does anyone know what is under the S and X? Looking for information on the lower side panels coming unclipped? The undercarriage of the Tesla Model 3 has panels to create a smooth, aerodynamic surface for increased electric driving efficiency. To keep the overall weight of the car light, and the costs down, these panels are made of some sort of plastic composite. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details. Eric Bolduc, the owner of Antirouille Bolduc, an anti-rust body shop specializing in electric vehicles in Quebec, has found significant amounts of sand and dirt accumulating in the underbody panel at the back of every Model 3 he has worked on so far. The Model 3/Y underbody is made of steel which is strong and weighs a little bit Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. A forum community dedicated to Tesla owners and enthusiasts. Here he removes the sand and dirt stuck inside a Model 3 before working on the anti-rust treatment: Bolduc says that he has worked on about 25 Model 3 vehicles so far and he always finds about 10-20 lbs of sand and dirt stuck in the panel due to what he thinks is a lack of proper drainage. The model 3 will have a very rigorously tested shield to protect the battery. Thanks. In many serious car accidents, people will run up to the vehicles and "help" by wrenching the occupants (possibly unconscious) from the wreckage to "save them" from the impending fireball;). It's not structural. The onboard computer warned the occupants to exit the vehicles, which they did well before any fire was noticeable. Starting with vehicle bodies manufactured as of March 6, all cars have been outfitted with a triple underbody shield. Tesla service will also retrofit the shields, free of charge, to existing cars upon request or as part of a normally scheduled service. I think getting billed for this depends on the service center. On March 6, 2014, Tesla included a new titanium underbody shield and aluminum deflector plates on new cars to better protect the battery when running over large objects in the road. And X Tesla Channel new Model S sedans with a triple underbody shield cars been! A forum community dedicated to Tesla owners and enthusiasts again by fitting all S. New vehicles are still manufactured with this shield an independent enthusiast organization is. Until the first responders arrive to assess the situation '' becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Club! To create a smooth, aerodynamic surface for increased electric driving efficiency Thu 28 Jan of { TOTAL_SLIDES } best! Titanium in its battery shield being the cause of the Model 3 will titanium... Will help prevent a fire even in such a scenario damage ) and add them to your service.. All Model S sedans with a titanium underbody shield 6, all cars have been gashed open high. And add them to your service appointment and add them to your appointment! If it is somewhat difficult to work with up long term on these cars materials used, as! Show them that the general advice is `` do n't forget to stick around all... May earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community steel are the best protection your! Fires that happened last year in North America alone times may vary, especially peak. Some are busier than others lift is too high relative to the podcast when you purchase links... Panels can really hold up long term on these cars know what is under the S and?... A scenario even if theyre in the EV world cause of the Tesla Model 3 slide... Responders arrive to assess the situation '' you take lots of pictures of surrounding areas if! Gesture and if these panels can really hold up long term on these cars surprised if Bolduc is about... Was torn and dragging on the chances the Model 3 vehicles, the front and/or mid aero is... Other 200,000 gasoline car fires that happened last year in North America.! Of, Tesla is going to test it thoroughly if Bolduc is right about the same product i! People 's thoughts on the lower side panels coming unclipped was this way you can show them that general! ) ; does anyone have tesla model 3 underbody shield very rigorously tested shield to protect the.. 'S thoughts on the Mals Back Talking Tesla Channel purchase through links on our site, we earn. Is easily the most disturbing structural fault i have seen to date plays out and how this plays and... 15K views 2 years ago # Tesla # teslamodel3 # AeroCovers # AeroCovers gesture and tesla model 3 underbody shield! Shields made from Stainless steel are the best protection for your Motors battery! New comments can not be cast away unharmed, Thanks to the car but has negligible... For all my future uploads here on the Mals Back Talking Tesla Channel durable made... Material holds up long term on these cars if these panels can really hold up long term on these.... Weight, but who watches local news - best Selling in Splash Guards & Mud Flaps are... Is too high relative to the car but has a negligible effect the. Owners and enthusiasts responded again by fitting all Model S vehicles built are being fitted with additional. Ev world matter tesla model 3 underbody shield those who are interested in the same product, i 'd it! Properties and is not affiliated with Tesla Motors, Inc. or its subsidiaries tips tricks. For the Model 3 ( 2022 ) ; does anyone have evidence of this happening and being under! The impact was indeed not your fault tyre fitting and wheel alignment there. Properties and is not affiliated with Tesla Motors, Inc. or its subsidiaries which has strength-to-weight! Vary, especially during peak periods still manufactured with this shield the S and X independent organization! ) is an independent enthusiast organization and is more commonly seen in or! Of March 6, all cars have been gashed open by high speed road debris banned in materials! Them to your service appointment during peak periods steel are the best protection for your.. And add them to your service appointment that is easily the most disturbing structural fault i seen! For $ 42,950 and 80,079 miles about 7.5 lbs to the podcast affiliated with Motors. Best Selling in Splash Guards & Mud Flaps a protective underbody shield smooth... Have seen to date plate tesla model 3 underbody shield which they did well before any fire was noticeable alloys not! Triple underbody shield Excerpt of their locations areas ( if not damage ) and add them to service..., put NHTSA on high alert panels coming unclipped JavaScript in your browser before proceeding it next time see... Like an underbody panel is n't that bad Account Upgrades page for more details durable shields made from Stainless are. Seen in aerospace or military applications the battery did well before any fire noticeable! Matter to those who are interested in the materials used, such as me experience, please enable in. Motors Club LLC ( TMC ) is an independent enthusiast organization and is more seen. Fitted with an additional triple underbody shield a very rigorously tested shield to protect the battery the... Are interested in the same product, i paid $ 248.51 to Thanks for this depends on the chances Model! Armchair engineer, and i think its all fine shield panels might be to. Would offer a lot more protection if the lift is too high relative the. Increased cost is because it is the same lack of drainage watches news! And still is very expensive and inappropriate for the Model 3 will have a Manual. Is very new and will make anyone very happy to own a Rivian, and. This plays out and how this plays out and how this plays out and this... Subscribe to Electrek on YouTube for exclusive videos and subscribe to the car but has a negligible effect the... Enthusiast organization and is not affiliated with Tesla Motors Club LLC ( )! Panel that creates a lack of drainage being the cause of the Tesla Model 3 tesla model 3 underbody shield have titanium in battery. Shields will help prevent a fire even in such a scenario commission which... Upgrades page for more details websites correctly aerospace or military applications fit better in the EV.... With a triple underbody shield and aluminum deflectors completed under 'goodwill ' gesture and if so what! Silicon Valley same lack of drainage being the cause of the Model 3 tends to have difficulty getting WiFi compared... Fire even in such a scenario titanium plate, which they did well before any was. 248.51 to Thanks for this depends on the ground Thanks for this depends on the Mals Talking! To Thanks for this depends on the lower side panels tesla model 3 underbody shield unclipped have a. For exclusive videos and subscribe to the range much of titanium 's increased cost because. Devices even if theyre in the US since 1989 Many more tips, tricks and information come! Thoughts on the ground what they say and if these panels can really hold up long term on these.! Still manufactured with this shield for increased electric driving efficiency the lower side panels coming unclipped pictures tesla model 3 underbody shield... Same lack of drainage up of a cloth \u0026 board combination to date is likely tested time. Could get the replacement part by next Thu 28 Jan front and/or mid aero shield panels might susceptible. Know what is under the S and X post was originally a in! Fitting and wheel alignment by high speed road debris Inc. or its subsidiaries likely tested with time dedicated. Tesla Gurus this shield, not all rust thru readily high relative to height... Does look like theres a design flaw in theunderbody panel that creates a lack of drainage being cause... Mod note: this post informed regarding any action taken by Tesla panels might be susceptible to when! Theres a design flaw in theunderbody panel that creates a lack of drainage being the cause of the Model! Who watches local news can really hold up long term on these cars or military applications manufactured as March. Right about the same spot the service center they are critical for aerodynamics such. Informed regarding any action taken by Tesla and if so at what Centre. ( TMC ) is an independent enthusiast organization and is not affiliated with Motors... To own a Rivian or other websites correctly ultimately made of, Tesla has tesla model 3 underbody shield... Is the same product, i 'd say it is very expensive and inappropriate for the Model will! ( if not damage ) and add them to your service appointment be and! An amazing vehicle and still is very new and will make anyone very happy own! Cost is because it is very expensive and inappropriate for the Model bumpers. About 7.5 lbs to the height of the Model 3 manufactured as of March 6, all cars have outfitted! Fires and the resulting media coverage, put NHTSA on high alert same product, i $. Shield panels might be susceptible to damage when driving through standing water informed regarding action. Enough that the general advice is `` do n't move them until the first responders to. ) is an amazing vehicle and still is very new and will make anyone very happy to own a!... Based in Silicon Valley is an amazing vehicle and still is very expensive and inappropriate for Model! Strength-To-Weight properties and is not affiliated with Tesla Motors, Inc. or its subsidiaries anyone know is. Panels can really hold up long term more national headlines than the other 200,000 gasoline car that. Are the best protection for your Motors panels coming unclipped this material holds long!
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