If the Holy Ghost impressed them, that means He is always ready to stir up their consequences a renewed and invigored faith, courage to tackle the obstacles that challenge its practice, be it in our own soul or in the world, for the love of God and neighbor in the imitation of Christ. I implore you to never cease telling your story. This has happened more than once in America. In any case, the plagiarized text (as alleged in the link above) is taken from a sermon given by Fr. Ad Orientem: Why is the Mass Celebrated Facing East? No they did not. Surely not all folks who are waking to the reality of the Counterfeit Church assume those who have already woken up are ipso facto smug? There is no other way for mankind to have been saved and redeemed except through the sacrificial offering of God Himself, totally innocent and obedient, to God the Father. I want news I can use, and information about my beloved Church that either furthers my knowledge about her, or warns me about those who want to destroy her. Oklahoma City, OK I thank God daily for them. Stop using deceptive language. Now there is the objective case of schism, and the legal/subjective case of schism. Therefore, the Church cannot be considered as something that stands between me and Christ, as so often is alleged. Tragically the position ruling the evidence mode into which the SSPX has morphed is a hook that draws, as in removing a vaudeville performer from a stage . Father Wolfe has been transferred. Louie will never bore a reader, guaranteed. Lots of us jump in to visit Mr.V., in the midst of raising broods of children & grandchildren, juggling this and that, including old age & a long time witnessing the collapse since before 1963 for example. Heres the truth: The SSPX refuses to sign a statement saying the Vatican II is an integral part of the tradition of the Church. It is this to which they refuse to submit, not the legitimate authority of the pope. SEND FLOWERS. ** Im pretty much thinking the same thing. Please look more closely at this. The abandoning took place with the founding document ecclesia dei in 1988 and was made more clear in 2003 with the FSSP constitutions. Yes, I feel certain that this unfortunate behavior comes from both sides of the aisle (so to speak). The Holy See, FSSP Apostolates Wolfe. Ottawa, ON So if, in responding to you here, anything comes off that way- know its not intentional. The FSSP has a long public and well documented record with the SSPX. Especially in light of the context in which hes stepping up his attack with the Pope extending a remarkable olive branch to Econe and disastrous developments in annulment law and the ominous maneuverings underway for the Synod Against the Family.. Gerard Saguto, FSSP. In the early days of the Novus Ordo priests and some Bishops understood that they had to give that scandal in order to protect souls from sliding into heresy and losing the Faith. San Diego, CA Edmund Campion dressed up as a jeweler to avoid arrest. This is at the 4 minute mark in the video. Youll note CMTV covered that school in an on-site special just as loyalties were pulling at its seams. I dont know what changed his mind regarding the SSPX, but whatever or whomever it is has him hooked good. Will the FSSP tell Voris PUBLICLY that he does not have permission to use FSSP sermons in his attacks on other Catholics in print or in audio and that his view that the SSPX is in schism is not the OFFICIAL position of the FSSP? It was simply too painful for many lay people to take. IMHO that, along with Verrecchios exhilarating writing style make this site what is-a meeting place to ignite the thinking process. Fraternity Publications For this reason Catholics must be wary of them. This is what michael voris used to say Montreal, QC Whether you believe the Pope IS the Pope (but in grave error and behaving as a Heretic) or the Pope IS NOT the Pope (for the same reasons), the fact remains that we are all suffering Catholics, striving to restore what is birthright membership through Baptism in the True Church of Christthe Holy, Roman Catholic Church. His first Mass in Seattle will be on Sunday, October 5th and it will be a sung Mass. 5th group SSPX RESISTENCE 2012/2013 these are mostly priests that belong to the SSPX. You really need a better source, maybe someone who doesnt provide you with misinformation in order to slander a good and faithful priest. Post Falls, ID And weather.) In justice it should be known. It was taking the faith seriously that led me to become sedevacantist and it is taking the faith seriously, that my family is going to hell (literally) which led me to break contact with them (as Jesus Christ directs us to do see Matt 18). Are they abandoning it if they fail to adopt the same posture as the SSPX? Weve got bigger fish to fry. He is in control, and our fidelity in things both small and large is what obtains for us the supernatural insights into His very life and designs. As you say, hopefully someday he will be humble enough to admit his error. This, for the love of God & the goal of conversion. Voris has done much good and I used to enjoy him but now I actively avoid him. At first I thought this was an angry tirade toward Mr. Voris for alleged plagerism. Providence, RI FSSP NA on YouTube It has been my experience time and again that fellow Trads, who later support the sedevacantist position, want nothing to do with family or friends who do not take this position. I didnt see you mention (granted -perhaps I missed it?) I feel sorry for Michael Voris. Church. I pray the chaplet everyday at 3-00oclock God willing. Will you also look at the links I posted above? The FSSP offers the Mass according to the form that was in use prior to the liturgical reforms of the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s. This is a combox, we are commenters. I dont say any of this as a criticism of those attending and supporting SSPX chapels, or even their clergy, which also includes some fine priests. Maple Hill, KS (4) What you all may be missing and maybe why Voris is really hitting this now, is that FSSP doesnt have a bishop, but if perverse Fairy Whore(hey!) I believe Bishop Morlino just issued a public apology to the SSPX also. I remember every word and it is my expectation that Father Wolfe will find someone else to host all the sermons he has been preaching but have not been posted publicly since the sad split with Audio Sancto. So, what exactly will change at the stroke of twelve? Whether or not they actually desire her destruction, or are simply operating in ignorance, is of no bearing on the present matter whatsoever. (Both Voris and Marshall refer to JPII and John XXIII as saints - big red flag!). Saguto, FSSP in the recording. Maple Hill, KS Novus Ordo Traditionalists That is the most Orwellian phrase I have ever heard. Charity is not spelled luv. Dallas, TX Youngstown, OH. We covered this recently enough, so I wont go into more detail here. By contrast, what has Michael done relative to his new understanding? In this, Michael Voris protests too much. Little Rock, AR Christ asks His Apostles. Fresno, CA This is sophomoric at best. Stay away. I witnessed their fine example of Catholic kindness, involvement & charity toward those who disagreed with them. I do believe that theres a thread of influence and someone as familiar with these personalities as Louie would do well to explore it. 15:5). Gruner was yet, so I looked past it in ignorance. Denton, NE (Seminary) Since becoming a sedevacantist, I have broken contact w/many of my family who consider themselves to be traditional catholics even as they stopped believing in confession when they were in college, attended mass whenever they feel like it, but always go to communion, are sterilized, use birth control, are divorced and remarried, are pro-abortion, are pro-homosexual marriage, dont believe anyone is going to hell, believe everyone is saved w/out being baptized or Catholic, are married to unbaptized persons, never go to mass, raise their children w/these values, never prayed the rosary with their children who are now 35 etc. I, for one, have found so many polite & dear empathetic souls here on Mr. V.s site who treat me wth tender kindness even on my worst days, and would never even think of bringin up my myriad flaws & throw them in my face. And for conversions we pray for, remember that among the Christian denominations there is only one Baptism it belongs to the Catholic Church so ask the Holy Ghost to stir up in them the courage to see where the blind spots are in their profession of faith. While it had varied levels of success, it was an interesting approach, because this reality of the Catholic Church as a home often escapes Catholics when they consider what the Church actually is. Do they disagree with Voris? Our Holy Faith often falls victim to being taken for granted. Father John Marcus Berg, F.S.S.P. Post navigation Yet, he sticks with it like glue. Atlanta, GA Tyler, TX To suggest in such a snide, sarcastic, evil way that these two movements by the FSSP are in any way related to the controversy here or on Church Militant is beyond the pale. Atlanta, GA Many excellent leaders in the Church, good holy men and women, recognize the exact same problems, but they havent left. A cardinal such as Cardinal Burke should speak the truth no matter what the modernist destroyers want. Gerard Saguto, FSSP was born and lived on Long Island, where his mother continues to live. Dear piokolbe and/or radtrad, The repeated and on going links between the FSSP and many of these attacks on Catholics in the SSPX coming from Voris and many other matters is a MANIFESTLY PROVABLE FACT. the point central to the sedevacantist position -that being the Roman Catholic Religion. Saguto, Fr. The thought of home is something that is written into the heart of every human being; while often times it brings to mind a physical house or location, it goes deeper. radtrad, They are within the Church. Mr. Peter McShurley ('14), Rev. Wolfe to begin attacking the SSPX, and that posture only heightened following the election of Pope Francis. His temporal concerns; nothing more, nothing less. That said, we disagree on the points you bring up. The details of this local conflict arent important, but what is important to know is that Fr. Will the FSSP issue a public statement in support of the SSPX and debunk the schism myth? Do they care? Whether an FSSP supporter is willing to admit it or not, he implicitly accepts the orthodoxy, legitimacy and/or intrinsic goodness of the Novus Ordo, ecumenism, religious liberty, communion in the hand, liturgical dance, server-ettes, Of course not. On the local level, a dust up ensued between the SSPX and the FSSP, or more appropriately, between individual persons associated with each as, apparently, a priest of the Society had advised people to avoid the FSSP and it got back to Fr. Id also like to see the currently all pervasive Heresy itself honestly made a point of discussion, without sentimentality or appealing to emotions which we all have wrapped up in this topic. The clown Masses, the lack of faith on the part of leaders, the abuses, the watered-down catechesis, the lesbian nuns, the gay priests, the destruction of the Faith by religious orders, and on and on. The worst criticism of the SSPX sure comes from the Novus Ordo Traditionalists. Gerard Saguto was our first pastor. First and foremost, however, one must be willing to take a good hard look at the conciliar texts and the new Mass and apply ones intellect as informed by faith. This cannot become ho-hum, but we know there is always a danger of that, or getting stuck in a rut. Dayton, OH North American Headquarters, South Abington Twp, PA I do encourage more investigation and I hope Justice is somehow given to all those harmed by the take down of Fisher More College. Theres an old definition of fanatic as someone who can change neither his mind, nor the subject. But I realized, and it actually had nothing to do w/sedevacantism, that me and mine WERE Nancy Pelosi. I too have been guilty of using the combox to lay off my personal frustrations, and I have also used uncharitable language. Do you have any insight on this? I totally agree with you about CMTV. The rest would be for a forum. Things had got worse since 1970 and the SSPX Was trying to compromise its previous postion on the council with rome order to be accepted by rome. The war is here where will the FSSP stand? Liturgical Guides to the Seasons This definition of Tradition is what the FSSP publicly holds as a condition of being received into new church. Either way . Please keep all those involved in this situation in your prayers.. Simon Harkins, FSSP as we begin the conversation on August 31st, featuring a fascinating interview with Abby Johnson on her pro-life work and her recent discovery of the beauty of the sacred liturgy. If Catholics do not like these attacks on the SSPX your beef is with the FSSP and its superiors. God. We would like to express our deepest gratitude to Fr. 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