He told me he did not feel the need for the extra gear and the 3 speed was an HD out of the truck with the deeper 1st gear to launch the car better, with a cast iron case it was much stronger than the aluminum 4 speeds of the day. United Italic Cond endstream endobj 3 0 obj <> endobj 5 0 obj <>/Font<>/ProcSet[/PDF/Text]/XObject<>>>/TrimBox[0.0 0.0 1206.0 783.0]/Type/Page>> endobj 6 0 obj <>stream OpenType - PS $13.88 $17.99. Great for any type of race car that require a stock transmission. Adobe InDesign CC 2017 (Macintosh) Here are the casting numbers that are on the trans. It used an aluminum case and different gear ratios from the Saginaw 4-speed. 544361140 0 0 1967-1969 Camaro Transmission Code Format (except TH400 and B-W 3-speed) Trans Code Format: tymdds where: t = transmission type MANUAL AUTOMATIC S = Saginaw 3-speed A = 68/69 L6 Torque-Drive K = McKinnon 3-speed C = Cleveland Powerglide H = 69 Muncie HD 3-speed T = Toledo Powerglide R = 4-speed Saginaw B = Cleveland TH350 You may want to think about a BW T5.unless you don't want a floor shift. The difference you are on dirt and usually in high gear. Come join the discussion about restoration, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! I am sure there are exceptions to this rule., (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Reverse has an over-ride, and remains a single speed no matter what you do. Dont Be That Guy, Reversing Gears ~ Rescuing Ones Own Derelict 1967 Pontiac GTO, How To Paint a Lace Roof on the Cheap Using Grandmas Curtains, Exploring an Antique Junkyard in the Hills of West Virginia, Engine, Transmission, Chassis Swap Donor Vehicle Look-Up, How To Select Proper Rear-End / Differential Gear Ratio, Popular Automatic Transmission Dimensions, Popular Automatic Transmission Identification Chart, Engine / Transmission / Chassis Donor Search, Project Cars and Part Donor Cars For Sale. http://www.britishv8.org/articles/borg-warner-t5-id-tags.htm, http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_cat_3_4_5_and_6_speeds_v24.html#GENERALMOTORS3SP, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Check it out here. 2.030 Great low but not so great highway speed. 643072603 If its an automatic, youve got a Turbo-Hydramatic 400 3-speed, AKA the Turbo 400, TH-400, or THM400. Go to any Dirt Track Racing Parks and ask them what trans they are using and 99.9% of the time they will say they use Saginaw 3 spd's. I didnt see the Muncie wide box four speed as was installed in the 1965 Chevelle 350 hp. Without OD's 8's had 3.31's and 6's had 3.55's. Typical OD cars had 4.11's in the mid 50's as I remember them especially 6cylinders and V8's had 3.70's. Anyway, it was a side loader just like the saginaw. False I am Butch/56sedandelivery. The special 3-speed H.D. They are as tough as nails, And as Paul Harvey used to say"and now you know the rest of the story", 1968 Malibu sport coupe, 489 ci. The transmission I have is confirmed via casting numbers as Muncie 3-speed used in a 71 Chevelle with big block, and it is in no way shape or form a toploader or a Ford. I ran a M-21 in my Big block Chevelle with 3:55 gears. OpenType - PS Butch/junior stocker. If youve got a manual transmission, were assuming its a four speed, because (from what we can tell) Chevy dropped the base manual 3-speed after 1969. ). FYI if you have a NP440, and your speedo is not calibrated properly, the speedo drive is cut in the mainshaft, the housing can be clocked until the speedo is adjusted properly. Copyright 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Learn how your comment data is processed. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Main difference I remember, is that all the shafts had double rows of needle bearings on each end, where the saginaw diagram only showed single rows. Adobe Systems . im building a 29 a coupe, 305 sbc bout 260 hp, running a saginaw 3 speed manual out of an 81 el camino v6 car, have a gm 10 bolt with 3.42 gears. Here are some common transmisions with gear charts. Adobe Systems The S series V 6 used the NV 3500. The first gear ratios are the same for the Saginaw 3 and 4 speed transmissions relative to the grooves on the input shaft. 1937 Master DeLuxe 2dr sedan, 250 six with 2 deuces and split manifold. We make an adapter to mate this transmission to a Jeep Dana 18 or 20 transfer case SAGINAW 3 SPEED: # OF SHAFT GROOVES 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 0 2.85 1.68 1.0 Thanks. To be eligible for a return, your item must be unused and in the same condition that you received it. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. 1199565182 They should be like 4.11 or a little under [3.73] which would give you overall ratio 12.08 in 1st gear and 2.87 in 3rd OD..Lets say your rear tires are 27" diameter, that would give you 2507 rpm @ 70 mph with 4.11 gears..2256 rpm with 3.73 gears giving 2.61 overall in 3rd OD.. You might be able to find a 7 bolt side cover Saginaw 3 speed with lower gears, and they would be quite a bit stronger than the old Muncie 318 transmission you currently have. 544361140 saginaw 3 & 4-speed manual transmission parts & rebuild kits. Weve assembled a variety of manual gear ratio charts for General Motors vehicles that we hope can help you avoid choosing the wrong transmission only to discover your hot rod or truck is performing like a 19th-century horse-drawn chuckwagon, minus the delicous beans and salt pork. It is the successor to the old New Process gear company. Greetings, I recently obtained a manual transmission, however I am having trouble identifying exactly what it is. Be the first to ask the question! The four-speed transmission is very similar to the tried-and-true Saginaw three-speed and fits well behind six-cylinder and eight-cylinder engines. You bring the gumption. Supporting Member 10. Muncie SM420 transmission 4-speed manual used up to 1967, very similar to sm 465 except small changes to gear ratios and location of reverse. 3.55 geared and higher (numerically lower) cars used the wide ratio gearbox. There was also a 3.50-low Sagnaw 4-speed, but I have NO idea of the app. Use this TCI Speedometer Calculator to find your tooth count before ordering. adobe:docid:indd:8cb252af-65b8-11e0-ab52-c56984a1fdef ). add to cart. Additional non-returnable items:* Gift cards* Downloadable software products. Hope that helps. Use the 4 speed chart to ID the first gear ratio by the grooves. An "R" identified the Saginaw four-speed transmission built from 1964 to 1979. AgencyFB Adobe Systems Were sorry if you love a particular transmission not shown on this list. I then swapped a 454 in and I run an M-20 and it is much better all around. 4263550061 My 68 SS396 came with the muncie 3spd in the console. converted Mounted on the cover was the reverse shift lever. 0 xmp.id:69f80f3f-c697-4c96-b645-9f21767701f4 issue and the tranny listed for the truck is the A833. I am Butch/56sedandelivery. Planning a manual transmission swap in your Chevy or GM vehicle? Helvetica LT Std We provide how-to and technical articles, vehicle and build features and examples, plus calculators and lookups that will help you get your ride from dream to driver. . The NV4500 was in HD 3/4 and 1 ton application. take offs on hills require i rev the motor . What is the RPO code for a 3-speed transmission? The Muncie 3-speeds I've had were very much like Saggy 3-speeds; a little beefier maybe, but not much different overall. Although not used in any Chevrolets as original equipment, the T-85 will replace the weaker Saginaw three-speed with minimal installation problems. It lists a Saginaw 3-spd. Shiftrer arms sold separately. Terms of Service. Trade Gothic LT Std They are light and are used in 500HP and 600HP applications. Axle Ratio 6T 7T . 0 4 or 6 bolt top cover; first-gear not synchronized SAGINAW (343) 7-bolt side cover; first-gear synchronized CAUTION: This transmission closely resembles 351 Muncie . Information and parts are provide for the following Transmission: Saginaw 4 Speed (RWD), an illustrated parts drawing is provided for the Saginaw 4 speed. (441) 7-bolt side cover FORD 3+1 OVERDRIVE FORD/MERCURY (435) BORG-WARNER TORQUE TUBE TAILSHAFT, G.M. Real World Hagerty Collector Car Insurance Claim Experience, How To Be Prepared For A Dyno Session And Not Waste Your Money, Holey Goat Father/Son Texas Road Trip 5 Days, and 2000+ Miles, Are You Killing The Hot Rod Community? If you do want the OD then the easiest answer is getting another 9" chuck set up with 3.90, or 4.11 gears. Minion Pro My velle had been pretty well ran hard and put away wet when i got it in 86. ShippingTo return your product, you should mail your product to: CircleTrackSupply.com304 5th Creek Road, Statesville, NC, 28625, United States. . The MC1 was offered on 1969 Chevelles (350 V8-up versions used the 2.42:1 low), not at all in 1970, then in 71-72 just behind 402 in Chevelles (rare). More Return Info below. I have tried finding it on the internet but cant. 6306-n bearing fits fs5w71 input, saginaw output, mazda mx5, muncie 318 & 319, nv1500 & suzuki m/s . OpenType - PS Adobe Systems As far as the GM cars/trucks go, up until 66, they were a 4 bolt side cover, Muncie 318 transmission with a BW R-10 OD unit, and referred to as a 319 trans, after 66 they were Saginaw's with the R-10 OD; The Saginaw's were fully synchronized transmissions, and stronger. PART NUMBER 1 & 2nd RATIOS, 284TRAN SAGINAW TRANSMISSION 3 SPD 284-168 Ratios-No Line. rear tire should be somewhere between 29.5 to 31. im thinkin it should be a decent all around setup as there will be alot of highway driving goin on, but i still want a decent bottom end. 0 default Must have worked out pretty well, he was running high 10's back then and he was one of the fastest cars at the track that year. Thats pretty short. Chevy used a Borg-Warner T-16 for their H.D. Great for any type of race car that require a stock transmission. Maybe a little more if you pay someone to do the gear swap right. For small-block V-8s, like the 350, the three-speed used 2.54:1, 1.50:1 and 1.00:1. Made up to Order. Jan 7, 2007 #5 62BillT said: Trying to find out the gear ratios on '58 to '64 regular 3-Speed transmissions, original for a 6 cylinder car. http://www.chevelles.com/shop/ss_ident.html, http://www.auto-roundup.com/index.php/gto-3-speed-transmission. It was on its 3d motor, and that one was dead when I got the car. applications (351, 390). Because different transmission gear ratios can greatly affect a drivetrain combination, its important for anyone performing a transmission swap to know the gear ratios of the gearboxes you might be installing in your vehicle. For V-8s, it was 2.54:1, 1.80:1, 1.44:1 and 1.00:1. 1199565182 Dearborn 3speed is the nomenclature.Ford 3.03, If you mean the 4-spd overdrive, I believe the ratios were 3.29, 1.67, 1, .81 with the older cast iron box. By clicking "Default Cookies" you agree to store cookies on your device that technically necessary for the operation of a website. 2411932084 That extension housing alone would be worth $$$ to a Corvette restorer (shifter and trans mounts). There are several gear ratios for the Saginaws. 2.030 Muncie 3-speeds are a good bit more durable than Saginaw 3-speeds. The article claims the Borg Warner was used in some Chevy 6 cyl. With today's power everyone wants to see less than 2000 rpm at 70 mph. 3-speed used in the light duty trucks (pickups etc). Look at. 12:1 compression, solid lifter cam, forged internals, headers, single plain, etc. The wide-ratio Muncie 4-speed transmission was marketed under RPO M20. Thank you for subscribing to the newsletter! These transmissions are externally shifted and will require shifter components. either that or you need your tach recalibrated. 2.85 *1.995: 1.68 *1.176: 1.00 *0.700: n/a: 2.95: Saginaw Standard 3-speed Manual (L6/283) 2.85: 1.68: 1.00: n/a: . Re: Upgraded gears for saginaw V-8 4 speed VIDEO!! I took mine apart once and used a sag diagram to put it together. 2771965578 adobe:docid:indd:8cb252af-65b8-11e0-ab52-c56984a1fdef 312180356 For 1969 Chevrolet replaced the Warner T-16 with a new Muncie-built h.d. W3i4w4t}/R2CNI4yM6y\\%kuR:Ay&0Fy~RC1g>Z9hMB9s;//?d5[>pVyWYL.W[v~(=1)nrhw+gi+*;;mw;q#96qW8g. Rebuilt Saginaw 3 speed (1-1/8" 10 spline) Transmission. TradeGothicLTStd-Light VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. A Saginaw with NO lines on the input shaft has a 2.85 first gear, 1.68 second, third is direct; 1 line is 2.43, second 1.50, and third direct; 2 lines is 3.11, second 1.84, and third direct, and lastly, 3 lines 3.50 first, 1.89 second, and third direct. Our policy lasts 30 days. If I had to grab 3d while we were still even I lost. any opinions 0 Saginaw Transmission Gear Ratio Identification. The number of times the engine turns past 12:00 to make one revolution of the drive shaft equals your 1 gear ratio. Can you post a photo? 0 3 and a half turn equals a 3.5 ratio for first gear Saginaw 4 speed 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 3.50-2.48-1.65-1.00 JavaScript is disabled. Speedo Gear Chart. 2771965578 CHART SAGINAW, G.M. I was shifting into 3rd around town. sale. Roadkill Customs has evolved from local hot rod shop to online how-to magazine for budget-minded do-it-yourself hot rod builders and enthusiasts. Hope this helps! The big gear spread between 2nd and 3d seemed to be the largest drawback to the trans. 229942480 Vintage 1980 Yamaha Enticer Snowmobile Revival to Former Glory. I'm running the 3.11 behind my 235 / '57 Chevy, and LOVE the gear spacing! The 1 groove 3-speed was the standard car tranny in the 70s. Due to this, the box tends to be noiser (whines or howls almost like a blower, which is why it's called a "rock crusher") than other boxes. Gear Venders is in the future. Fully synchronized with 30 tooth syncro rings. Wagner attended California State University, Los Angeles, and has a degree in journalism. Copyright 2023 Leaf Group Ltd. / Leaf Group Media, Drivetrain: Saginaw Four-Speed Manual Transmission. A forum community dedicated to Chevrolet Chevelle owners and enthusiasts. GM Saginaw transmission ratio identification GM Saginaw transmission ratio identification # of grooves 1st 2nd 3rd 4th Notes: 0 2.85 2.02 1.35 1.00 1 2.56 1.81 1.37 1.00 Third gear on cluster has 25 teeth 1 2.56 1.81 1.44 1.00 Third gear on cluster has 21 teeth 2 3.11 2.20 1.47 1.00 3 3.50 2.48 1.65 1.00 Great torque. Meanwhile, Pontiac, Oldsmobile & Buick were using the Dearborn 303 RAT, a version of the Ford toploader 3-speed that was GM version. The gears were fully synchronized and the synchro rings had 30 teeth. Turn engine over by hand and have a friend look at the driveshaft mark and tell you when it makes 1 revolution. xmp.iid:80c69d30-0d46-4d11-9acb-a483a14d2baf It is mostly Camaro/Firebird/Corvette-focused. We hope you enjoy shopping at Circle Track Supply, Inc. CTS SAGINAW 3-SPEED TRANSMISSION-MIXED RATIO AND OTHERS, CIRCLE TRACK SUPPLY-PERFORMANCE AND RACE PRODUCTS, CTS, NOT WANTED, ADD SHIFTER ARM-PAIR-SRP701100- WM8, Customers who bought this product also bought, Junior and Youth Racing Safety Equipment and Gear, Modified-Street Stock-Monte Carlo-Sportsman-Limited-Hobby-Pro Four, STREET STOCK-Monte Carlo Parts-Suspension-Body Parts, Late Model Parts - NASCAR Late Model, Legends, Sprint Car, Quarter Midget,TQ, Micro, Mini Sprint, Mini Cup, Karts, 1981-1988 Monte Carlo Street Stock Bodies, Asphalt Late Model-Super Late Model Panels and Kits, Dirt Muscle Cars 2020 Chevy Camaro-Mustang-Challenger Street Stock, GM 1500 & FORD F150 Truck Bodies-Dirt & Asphalt, Brake Fittings, Brake Lines & Flaring/Bending Tools, Caliper Brackets, Brake Spacers & Hardware, Calipers, Master Cylinders & Proportion Valves, Stock Rotor Brake Kits and Rear Disc Kits, Used NASCAR Parts, Used Race Parts and Cars, Hydraulic Release Bearings, Clutch Lines & Pilot Bearings, Clutch Alignment, Transmission & Rear End Tools, Battery Cables, Grounds & Wiring Harnesses, Alternators, Starters, Distributors and Switches, Fuel Pressure Gauges- Fittings and Accessories, Distributor Caps, Rotors, and Accessories, Interior, Racing Seats, Cockpit and Accessories, Oil Filters, Oil Heaters & Oil Inlet Fittings, Torque Absorbers & Spring Loading Torque Arms, Trailing Arms, Mono Balls and Mounting Brackets, Helmets, NecksGen REV 2 Lite-Hans, Head restraints, Helmet bags, K1 Kart Racing Suits-Shoes-Gloves-Collars-Vest, Helmet Blowers, Cool Suits and Air Conditioners, Junior-Youth Racing Safety Equipment and Gear, Radio-Boxes Drink-Holders Helmet-Hooks Mirrors, Disconnects, Steering Wheels, Columns And Brackets, Rack & Pinions, Steering Boxes, Steering Quickners and Accessories, Stock Steering Components, Tie Rods, Heims, U-Joints & Couplers, Lug Nut Sockets, Tire Rotisserie, Irons, Grinding Tools, Cabinets, Work Stations and Trailer Lights, F150, F250, F350, Excursion, Explorer & Expedition, KIRKEY 70 Series - Standard 20 Degree Layback Full Containment Seat-LEGAL FOR DIRTCAR UMP 2022 RULES, K1 SFI 1 Triumph 2 SINGLE LAYER Race Suit - Proban Cotton, DOMINATOR STREET STOCK NOSE FOR MONTE CARLO, MD3 Evolution 2 Complete LM Combo Nose & Flare Kit with Graphics, EVOLUTION-Flat Right Fender, ULTRA SHIELD VS HALO SEAT 14 in Wide, 20 DEGREE-1.00" TALLER. 0 2.030 Hi there For small-block V-8s, like the 350, the three-speed used 2.54:1, 1.50:1 and 1.00:1. 1 0 obj <>>> endobj 2 0 obj <>stream Strange mix I know but bought off the lot that way. Your email address will not be published. "O" denoted the transmission was equipped with overdrive. They appeared in a wide variety of General. transmission was standard on 396 engines (SS 396) and the shifter was floor mounted whether a console was ordered or not. The Font Bureau The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Saginaw three-speed transmissions featured gear ratios of 2.85:1 for first, 1.68:1 for second and 1.00:1 for third when matched with L6 in-line six-cylinder engines. Snap On vs Daytona, Pittsburgh, ESCO, Husky, More. 590 hp 600 tq, RV T-400 Freakshow 3200 stall, 3.73 12 bolt posi, Get in the Chevelle and turn back the Clock 45 years. Rob Wagner is a journalist with over 35 years experience reporting and editing for newspapers and magazines. Muncie Four-Speed Gear Ratios: M20 Wide-Ratio . This is a GM light-duty car transmission used from 1966-1985 model years. The Muncie also has a 7 bolt side cover; however, the Muncie reverse lever is found in the extension housing and features an aluminum case. Saginaw 3 & 4 speed, GM T5, Powerglide, 200 & 350 transmissions. The body of it is bigger than a typical 3 speed. Saginaw Three-Speed Type First Gear Second Gear Third Gear Saginaw Four-Speed Type First Gear Second Gear Third Gear Fourth Gear T-5 Five-Speed (Camaro/Firebird) Type First Gear Second Gear Third Gear Fourth Gear Fifth Gear T-56 Six-Speed (Camaro/Firebird) Type First Gear Second Gear Third Gear Fourth Gear Fifth Gear Sixth Gear 2006 - 2023 Circle Track Supply, Inc.. All rights reserved. For long highway trips swap the 3.50 chuck back in. Have not had enough of them to determine applications or years. HelveticaLTStd-BoldCond The Muncie 3 speed was a Ford top Loader and much strong than a Saganaw. Some products are made to order to spec and will ship once built. JavaScript is disabled. 2016-11-14T15:32:50-08:00 His experience ranges from legal affairs reporting to covering the Middle East. Transmission Gear Ratio Chart ~ Gear Ratios are listed for many popular transmissions. We also do not accept products that are hazardous materials, flammable liquids, or gases. Saganaw 3 and 4 speed are used mainly in oval and dirt track modified racing. Your email address will not be published. If 30 days have gone by since your purchase, unfortunately, we cant offer you a refund or exchange. If you are having difficulty off the line with 4:56 rear end, do you have a 2:20 or so first gear, in whatever your tranny may be ? etc. MORE INFO BELOW in Shipping Info section. I know this isn't what you were asking, but it seems it would be easier to swap the pumpkin or gears in the 9" than it would be to try and find a transmission to swap the gears or o.d. OpenType - PS Here is one of many articles, it is something you have to dig for and have a clue or two. There is often some processing time before a refund is posted.If youve done all of this and you still have not received your refund yet, please contact us at glnmaurer@circletracksupply.com. 0 Saginaw M26/27 transmission 3 and 4-speed longitudinal light duty (less than 300 hp) wide ratio manual transmission made by GM at their Saginaw, . The base manual transmission for non-high-performance models and 67-8 SS350's was the Saginaw 3-speed, M15. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If that's the case, then the Saginaw-with just three forward gears-already has a lighter rotating mass than just about any other trans you'll find. Hopefully some of you transmission guru's can help. As far as the 3.11 and 3.50 Saginaw first gear 3 speeds, I'd start with the 4 and 6 cylinder Chevy II/Nova's, and the Vega/Monza class of compacts (probably pretty hard to find those any longer). Late or missing refunds (if applicable)If you havent received a refund yet, first check your bank account again.Then contact your credit card company, it may take some time before your refund is officially posted.Next, contact your bank. Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by bobg1951chevy, Apr 30, 2016. TradeGothicLTStd How do I tell what transmition is in my 1970 Corvette stingray? The Muncie 3 speed was a Ford top Loader and much strong than a Saganaw. No questions yet. ALL of these older, 3 speed transmissions with OD have a Borg Warner overdrive unit attached to them, they are not Borg Warner transmissions, although one particular make (not GM) did use a Borg Warner transmission plus the Borg Warner OD. Any info would be . Because the Muncie has so much in common with the T-10 and even similar Saginaw boxes, it is easy to get this guy mixed up with non-Muncie units. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Apparently they did, because I have an issue of a rare Diesel enthusiast magazine called Diesel Digest and it mentions the new 6.2L GM diesel engine in a 1981(?) VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. (455) I am in the process of swapping the Saginaw in my 64 C10 truck to a Muncie 3-speed that originally came in a 71 Chevelle with big block engine. Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by aceracer23, Jul 19, 2010. 2.020 You will be responsible for paying for your own shipping costs for returning your item. HWYs}W$!l@v}eR%0J9$$!kK2w98 TradeGothicLTStd-Bold 2.020 General Motors used the in-house Regular Production Option (RPO) code "M15" to identify the three-speed and "M20" for the four-speed. Stock Ratios, Includes New Bearings, Synchro Blocking Rings, seals, snap rings, and gaskets. notably the Muncie M20 wide ratio, M21 close ratio and M22 rock crusher, and automatic fans had either a two-speed Powerglide from 1964 . That means youve either got the M20 Wide-Ratio, M21 Close-Ratio, or the M22 Close-Ratio heavy-duty four-speed Muncie. Drag Racing 101 ~ Everything You Need to Know! What ratio are the rear end gears? I run a BB 454/425 with Ford 9 rear at 3:89. It was originally designed for engines generating less than 300hp; however, upgrade parts are available to make it more compatible with higher horsepower applications. 312180356
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